Askar Esdaulet

– Askar, you graduated the design department of the Shymkent Art College. How did you end up receiving sculptor’s education in Almaty?

– Everything happened by chance. After graduating the college as one of the best students, I was sent to Mukhina Art College in St Petersburg, and precisely at that time, I lost my passport and could not go to St Petersburg and arrived in Almaty with a great delay. I just managed to submit my documents to the Theatre and Art Institute on last day and it was possible to enrol only into the sculpture department. I agreed, hoping to change my department later. But I stayed because we solved many various technical tasks at the design department in college and we drew and designed a lot. I treated everything with responsibility but these subjects demanded accuracy and promptitude, whereas I wanted freedom of creativity. At the sculpture department, we had almost no paper work but lots of possibilities for self-realizations. You just sat and moulded for hours – I loved this very much!

– Artists often say that they are chained by academic education…

– The first years we were taught by Professor Khakimzhan Nauryzbayev. He was very enthusiastic and instilled love for sculpture in us. He received a sufficient impulse in two years to move forward independently. Of course, we had classic education of the traditions of the Russian school of realism. Unfortunately, we learnt nothing but “realism” in the late 1990s. But to some extent, I was lucky. I managed to attend the “course of Shymkent trasavantgarde” read by Professor Vitaliy Simakov, who managed to show us a link between time and artistic forms on an example of the development of world art. For us, young people from Shymkent, this was a startling surprise, so that already in college I could think both literally and abstractly. This enabled me to create works which I am still proud of. For example, my work Expectation made in plasticine. In 2002, when the possibility emerged I cast it in bronze. Education certainly helps me but personal efforts are also important.

– If you were so much into sculpture, why did you paint after college? Fortunately, you did it successfully.

– At the Shymkent College, we studied painting a lit. Teachers noted that I had a sense of colour and space. In addition, after college I had more opportunities of painting because painters need just brushes, paints, an easel and a corner. Sculptures need much bigger and more expensive technical means, such as a workshop to work and store moulds and materials. I realized I could not have enough means to do quality sculptures. Otherwise, I devoted many years to painting and created several hundred paintings and took part in international exhibitions. I was acknowledged by the public, critics and collectors. However, I had never forgotten about sculpture and from time to time, I moulded and cast in metal. I have finally now acquired the possibility of doing sculptures and I enjoy it a lot. It is a manly occupation – you cut, nail and straighten things. Even now, the size of my workshop allows me to create big things. In order to implement ideas I have at the moment I need a quite big workshop because it is obvious that in sculpturing many things depend on material means. If you have enough money, you cast it in bronze, if not, then mould it from Plasticine.

– Many of your early creations are made of cast iron. Is the choice of this material also explained by material problems?

– No, this is absolutely different. Since 1998, I had a chance of sculpturing. Moreover, I could do this not to earn a living but solve artistic problems I was interested in. By that time, I had already had experience of working with bronze, but then it seemed to me banal and uninteresting. I saw in cast iron a material which opened up the Kazakh “code” and bore certain elusive features and qualities of the nation. I made objects of it which, I think, reflected a link between modern art and the aesthetics of ancestors. I do not know though whether this link was clear only to me, or others also understood it. I paid great attention to texture and deliberately increased rustiness, making the surface “ancient”. I remembered, as a child, playing with various metal instruments. When they rust, they become perfect and acquire a shape and expression. You feel special energy in them. I tried to give it to cast iron, using unusual processing.

At first time, many people did not understand my work and asked me when I would clean the surface and get rid of rust. Everyone asked why it did not shine because there was a stereotype that sculpture is something that pleased the eyes. Our people yet have to get accustomed to non-standard plastic techniques, giving special information and so on. On the other hand, I did not want to follow the established taste. I was convinced that precisely cast iron was able to communicate the voice of past centuries and the depth of national images. Relevant themes emerged: wise old men, women-mothers, grandfathers and grandchildren, and brave warriors.

– What generated your interest in the past of the Kazakhs? You have been to Europe and learnt about progressive idea, was it not more logical to plunge into globalization?

– I start to think “globally” soon after graduating from college – I was young and energetic. I then had greater attraction to new, modern ideas and I wanted to work with new materials. For example, combining glass, aluminium and papier-machй. I even worked with them. Some time afterwards, I calmed down, and started to think what Kazakh art needed (this may sound too eloquent). I arrived at conclusion that there was no link with the national ancient traditions. Working with cast iron is my attempt to establish this link. It is a kind of path to find myself. It appears to be not just mind. In Kazakhstan now both writers, musicians, philosophers and we, artists, are looking back at the roots. We are trying to fill the gap and restore the continuity of generations. This is because each person perceives himself as a link in a long chain of generations. It is very important to remember and respect the past. I devoted myself to ancient culture and worked on this idea for several years. It is possible that without covering this path I would have looked down at the past as something old, ancient and obsolete. Now I feel I am part of my people and its history. The entire history of it from ancient times to modern days generates my interest. Creating these pieces of art, I have enriched myself and found solace in them. I hope that they will communicate something to people.

– Why did you turn to bronze?

– I had worked with cast iron for four years between  1998 and 2002. I managed to master everything this material offered and exhausted my interest in it. I created more than 50 pieces and it seems to me that I have expressed everything I wanted through them. Working with cast iron again will be the repetition of what I have already said.

Bronze is a classic material and a basic one for sculptures. When working with bronze you have a great room for experimenting with texture and shade. At the same time, I do not feel anything special about it because bronze is such a commonplace material that it is hard to find “your own” bronze. It is all the same in terms of rusting, shading or shining. Nevertheless, I experiment and hope that I will express my views in this material.

– Anyway, you have painted and sculptured a lot. What are the most important things in these forms of art?

– Let me first explain the difference between them. Spontaneity, the energy of feelings and the free movement of gesture are extremely important in painting. Techniques and the understanding of technological processes, i.e. the occupation, are important in sculpturing.

Otherwise, even if you have a rare talent you will not be able to create anything. Sculptures always have to accumulate experience and knowledge and constantly perfect themselves. I often return to my old works and try to perfect them to the level of mastery I have now. I can say that this is an endless process.

On the other hand, in painting it is harder to be ahead – there are an incredibly great number of artists and currents. It is very hard to do your own thing and find your niche. It is a little easier in sculpturing. There are few masters who are creating because of the aforementioned problems. That is why it is easier to do something original, but, I will repeat myself, this will show, above all, the professionalism of a master.

– Do you think that you have reached the high level of professionalism?

– I know for sure that I have stopped being afraid of material. I confidently use unusual composition techniques. For example, if it is necessary for an artistic effect, I will easily remove a head or stomach in the sculpture. However, not everyone can assess my experiments. On the other hand, four or five, or even three, years ago, sculptures made of cast iron were not accepted at all, while at my latest exhibitions I started to receive enthusiastic comments. So it seems that the main thing is to start believing yourself. They will start understanding at some point. Of course, I do not rule out that some of my efforts are in vain. The true value of a piece of art can be assessed only in 20 years’ time. As is said, time will tell.

Anyway, of course, I would like this time to arrive as soon as possible. So that not only I understand my creations, but everyone realizes information they have to transmit.

At the same time, I believe that all this largely does not depend on me but on what the public focuses its attention – whether it is popular academic art or contemporary art at the moment. I am not interest in either of them, but I am trying to find my own way which I discussed above and it is confirmed by my creations in this album.

– What prospects do you see in this path?

– The problem of creativity in sculpturing in Kazakhstan is very topical at this moment. Where to go, in which direction and which form? Should extravagancy be an aim? I seem to grow over juvenile ideas – mould and pain papier-mвchй. Should we move along the traditional and classic path? It seems that all paths are known well here. This is the most important question – I ask myself this question every day. While answering it I try to make my creativity to correspond the times I am living in. Even when I appeal to the past, I try to work for the future. I try to move along the path chosen honestly, because each day is a choice.

Anyway, it is theoreticians’ job to discuss prospects for this. I personally deal with only problems of forms: the size, distance, the logic of proportions of parts, the relation between statics and dynamics, and texture. All these are components of the development of image. Each work has a certain aim, and I try to solve it as cleverly as possible. For example, it is about finding the correlation between emptiness and weight. These are artistic and technical problems and I should solve them professionally.

I am currently working with small forms which can be changed limitlessly, and take pleasure working on them. However, I plan to create something bigger that are capable of instilling energy in large exhibition spaces.

– But do you still regard yourself a sculptor?

– I must have been a sculptor, perhaps, for the past six month only, although I have been working with metal for the past five or six years. However, this is a little stage for me – half a step. What can one do in five years? It is a very short time to achieve any mastery. It is possible that when I am 50 or 60 I will do something indeed significant. This thought offers me a possibility of looking at the future without stopping in one place. And the main thing is that I do not try to artificially force myself into certain stylistic frames. It even frightens me when I say that I have found my style in sculpturing because for me finding a new style is to stop. That is why I must be experimenting a lot. I am wandering among forms and often find successful ones. Later, maybe, I will stop on something but I want to just walk right now.

Interviewed by Alla Dubrovina

June 2008